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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Joseph wrote:
I like 2001.


I don't really "get" 2001. It feels like a ten hours movie where nothing ever happens, then some 20 minutes extremely weird sequence happens and then it's over.

I can understand people on a trip enjoying it, but those that weren't chemically addled... hmmm.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:30 pm 
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It's not a movie I'd re-watch any time soon, certainly not a chips and dip movie night with your mates thing. I've seen it twice, the second was with a friend who hadn't. It's one of those flicks that, being a classic, you should see. Once you see it, once you know the story, that's good. At least for me.


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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:29 am 
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TMP is bad but not as bad as Insurrection or Nemesis. As Plinkett said: You can take a shit, fix your car and get nachos without worrying about what's happening.

As for Star Trek novels. I hereby declare TNG as having "Most boring novels." With Enterprise having surprisingly good novels.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:04 am 
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I don't read the novels any more. When I was in public school and high school, I enjoyed them but now, well, you know what they say about "never meet your heroes"? It's something like that. This is probably a weird thing for a writer to say, especially in the age of the internet and easy interaction, but having become familiar with some of the novelist as posters on the TrekBBS (and several are quite active) I simply couldn't read their work. Some a great people, and I would read their work but others...


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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:23 pm 
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I started a rewatch of Voyager, currently at Season 2, Episode 2.

During a Star Trek creative meeting, sometime between 1994 and 1995...

Chuck: "Guys, we still need some recurring antagonists for Voyager. The reqs department mentioned they had some leftover..."
Steve: "Huh? Why do we need a recurring antagonist for a show about a ship trying to make its way home?"
John: "Executives said we need to cut down a little on the budget. Recurring antagonists could probably cut 10% of production costs, you know, reusable masks and sets we wouldn't need to change that much, and all."
Chuck: "Right, as I said... reqs still has some unused old Klingon designs and mask prototypes, we could use those."
John: "Yeah, great idea. They could be warrior-like and require initiation rights, and they could tie into the pilot as well. You know, they're aggressive and violent."
Steve: "Guys, Klingons were the antagonists back in the 60ies, we need something else."
John: "Steve, really, nobody watches the old Trek any more. I like the idea, we could call them Kazon."
Chuck: "Woah, yeah, awesome idea. And Janeway destroys the only way home in the pilot so the Kazon can't use it to whatever, wipe some civilisations out or conquer!"
John: "That's totally, like, awesome!"
Steve: "Guys... why would she destroy the only way home? Besides, the crew won't like that at all. Especially not the Maquis that get stranded there with them. That's silly."
Chuck: "Nah, we'll just write a single episode dealing the internal issues. Let's put it at the end of Season 1, that'll fix things."
John: "Totally awesome. To make the Kazon even cooler, we could give their tribes ludicrous names. No, not tribes... more like sects!"
Steve: "Guys... really..."
John: "Shush, that's awesome. Let's bring it!"

It's really hard to believe that someone with average intelligence could possibly come up with the storyline how Voyager stranded in the Delta Quadrant and invent Delta-Klingons along the way. How did this shit ever get through approval?

Well luckily they had dropped the entire idea by Season 3. I thought about skipping Season 2, but I don't like to skip episodes. Not even the bad ones.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:27 pm 
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The Kazon are basically Klingon's redneck trash cousins. Their jail consists of an invisible line in the ground. Seriously watch a Kazon episode and look at their jails. There are NO bars whatsoever.

The borg refused to assimilate them for a reason. And note I like Voyager.

Edit: Majestic why did you leave out Rick Berman and Brannon Braga?

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:32 am 
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Fluffy17 wrote:
Edit: Majestic why did you leave out Rick Berman and Brannon Braga?


I just made up three names and ran with it...

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:51 pm 
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So I just watched Elogium, and I can't even begin to explain how utterly dumb the B-plot of this episode is. The A-plot was okayish, albeit nothing exactly new. TNG had an episode where the ship was considered a parent for some space faring creature, now Voyager is considered a contender in the procreation of some space faring thingies looking awfully like pink space semen.

The B-plot was about Kes and having a child. Apparently Ocampa women can conceive only once in their life, and from all the talk she does it is about conceiving A child, not many children, so the prospect of getting twins or triplets would appear to be just as rare as it is with humans.

Which would mean that the Ocampa would have died out thousands of years ago. If every pair could only have a single child, things would look grim for the general population after a while. Actually, right from the beginning. The idea has some dramatic merit though, what with Kes having to decided to go through with it or not, it's her only shot at it, after all.

Having Neelix out of all people as the potential father just made it even more cringe-worthy than the intellect-insulting idea of a any species only capable of bearing a single child per parent. Geez writers, please, some common sense here.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Most episodes focusing on Neelix and/or Kes were pretty weak. And even beyond those two, the writers really dropped the ball all too often. Still, I'll take VOY over TNG. TNG is so horribly, horribly bland and preachy. In fact I think TNG is more dated than TOS. TOS has a 50 year old sci-fi charm to it in the sets and f/x. TNG just has that horrible preachy 1980s p/c crap. Oh, and lousy actors outside of Patrick Stewart.


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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:11 am 
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Joseph wrote:
lousy actors outside of Patrick Stewart.

Not a Spiner fan? :eyebrow:

But yes TNG sucks in one way or another, I am BAFFLED at how people rip on VOY and ENT saying they NEVER had a good episode in their run but praise TNG despite the first two seasons being complete garbage and the seventh season was equally crap. I'll say it now. I can list at three TNG episodes worse than Threshold (which I liked as I can't stand Paris), Profit and Lace and A Night at Sickbay: :look:

1. Code of Honor: Black people are savages and want to have sex with a white woman who fights another black woman so they can have an arranged marriage so Picard can have a vaccine or something.

2. Justice: Utopia... for nazi poster people only.

3. The Royale: Worf, Data and Riker are idiots in a pointless non-holodeck malfunction thingy created by something.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:02 am 
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You're exaggerating here (as uaual...).

ENT and VOY did have their monents and they certainly had good, if not great, episodes - just on average, the quality of both shows was lacking, and they never had any stand out episodes like Inner Light or if you want to go back to TOS, The City on the Edge of Forever.

There is no single espisode worse than Threshold. It's impossible. It would be more possible to divide by zero than doing something worse than Threshold. Actually, worse than Threshold would probably cause a Class Z Apocalypse.

Sure, the three epsiodes of TNG you mentioned were really, really bad but they had more merit on their own than Threshold. In Code of Honour you could at least guess what the intentions were, Justice was ultimately about literal application of law vs. the spirit of the law (and seriously, where on film have you ever seen anything other than physically perfect people UNLESS that was the plot point?) and The Royale was a surreal commentary on bad literature that worked better on paper than on TV. Yes, definitely NOT Star Trek and certainly not a good offering, but definitely with more merit than Threshold had curtesy of a few laughs. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:28 am 
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Oh come on! Threshold was hilarious. Paris breaks the Warp 10 barrier, starts mutating, kidnaps Janeway, they mutate into lizards and have babies. Brilliant! :D

Sorry, majestic, no matter how you slice it TNG was just bland and boring without even enough good episodes to fill one season let alone the seven it ran for. And one of the best characters TNG had, Ensign Ro, was completely wasted.

Had TNG killed Riker, LaForge, Troi and both Crushers, had Shelby take over as First Officer and made Ro a regular character then maybe it could have been better than the bland, preachy sanctimonious sack of swill it is.


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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:35 am 
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Joseph wrote:
Sorry, majestic, no matter how you slice it TNG was just bland and boring without even enough good episodes to fill one season let alone the seven it ran for. And one of the best characters TNG had, Ensign Ro, was completely wasted.


So? In their entire run ENT and VOY haven't produced enough good episodes to even fill half a season. I'm pretty sure I can make a full season's run out of TNG. :haha:

As far as Threshold being hilarious goes, I actually had fun with DS9's Ferengi episodes, as bad as they were. But... but... Threshold... nah. Never.

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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 am 
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I couldn't stand most of DS9 but that's because I just didn't care for the whole Bajoran religion/Prophets bit. But I did love Little Green Men. Quark at Roswell!

And ENT, in four seasons came up with enough good episodes to two. TNG in seven could barely fill one. VOY... on par with TNG but at least it wasn't bland and boring and the characters, had they been properly developed, had far, far more potential than anything you could do with the TNG characters.


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 Post subject: Re: ENTERPRISE - and Star Trek in general now...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:35 am 
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Suffered through a few more 2nd Season VOY episodes.

The Neelix/Paris/Kes love "triangle" is as boring as it is uninspired, but somehow the writers have kept it alive through half the season. Why, hell, just why?

Oh and yeah, the Kazon are apparently misogynic, or at least pretty sexist. Ever seen a woman on board their ships? Nah. And Seska gets told to stuff it because she's a woman. Ahhh... and she impregnates herself with Chakotay's "DNA". What surprising plot twists await us there?

Right, none. It's just another Seska trap our valiant buffoony Starfleet crew will tap into at the end of the season. Just shoot me now, please.

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