Walkout

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silvar
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Post by silvar » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:24 pm

Because I feel downright left out of heated debates on a regular basis (and my posts average 3 lines) here is something to ignore

When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open the new session of the Kansas Senate, everyone was expecting the usual generalities, but this is what they heard:

"Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to
those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free

Guide and bless these men and women who have been sent to direct us to the center of Your will and to openly ask these things in the name of Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ.

Amen!"

The response was immediate. A number of legislators walked out during the prayer in protest..
The church is now receiving international requests for copies of this prayer from India , Africa and Korea ..

Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, "The Rest of the Story," and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired.

Easy way to conquer a country: fill the government with religon until they walk out and then hold the stay in folk at knife point until one is declared king.
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Post by Phosphor » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:33 pm

And people try and say church and state are seperate in the US. Since Bush took over, church and state are seperate in theory only, but not in practice.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning. And the sea's asleep and the rivers dream … People made of smoke and cities made of song … Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold!

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Post by Snookems » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:48 pm

Hey, let's go back to the old ways. Shall we go back to the good old days when women stayed home, did as they were told and men hid their fears and cowardices by hating minorities and abusing women? Or maybe we should go farther back to the time to when women were worshiped, respected, and revered? But that's going far back and I can't fig out which on that senator? wanted to go back to.

I see our growth and progress as a race as an analogy for human growth and development. As you grow you learn more, and if you try very hard you get smarter, stronger and eventually wiser. . . If you stop trying and go back to days of yore you have stunted your growth and will learn no more. If you're not growing your dying. And sometimes growing is just too hard people to do b/c it is a constant struggle. God is an easy road to comfort. Holding onto ideologies and beliefs instead of facts can be good or it can be very detrimental.

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Post by silvar » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:34 pm

unless i'm misundestanding what ya wrote

Yer calling Females a different race?
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Post by Phosphor » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:55 pm

You're misunderstanding.

Regarding the prayer, some what he said makes sense, really. However, wrapping social commentary up in religious dressings is not something that should be done in government.
If Joe Wright wished to comment on these social issues, then fine, but doing it via prayer is not the correct way to go about it.
Though he compains essentially about a lack of moral centre, but he's all over the place there, I can't discern what his agenda is.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning. And the sea's asleep and the rivers dream … People made of smoke and cities made of song … Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold!

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Post by apoxuponme » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:57 pm

Back in January of 1996, the Rev. Joe Wright, senior pastor of the 2,500-member Central Christian Church in Wichita, was invited to offer the opening prayer at a session of the Kansas House of Representatives (not the Kansas Senate, as claimed in the text.

Rev. Wright had been invited to serve as the House's guest chaplain by Rep. Anthony Powell, a Wichita Republican who was also a member of Wright's church. Accordingly, Rev. Wright composed a prayer, read it at the opening of the legislature on January 23, and departed, unaware of the ruckus he had created until his church secretary called him on his car phone to ask him what he had done.

Reportedly, one Democrat (not "a number of legislators") walked out in protest, three others gave speeches critical of Wright's prayer, and another blasted Wright's "message of intolerance." House Minority Leader Tom Sawyer (also a Democrat) asserted that the prayer "reflects the extreme, radical views that continue to dominate the House Republican agenda since right-wing extremists seized control of the House Republican caucus last year." Rep. Jim Long, a Democrat from Kansas City, said that Wright "made everyone mad." But Rep. Powell, who had invited Wright in the first place, claimed that House Democrats were only trying to make political points with their criticism and affirmed that he supported the theme of the prayer.

Rev. Wright said afterwards: "I certainly did not mean to be offensive to individuals, but I don't apologize for the truth." His staff stopped counting the telephone calls that came from every state and many foreign countries after the first 6,500. Wright appeared on dozens of radio shows and was the subject of numerous TV and print news reports, and his prayer stirred up controversy all over again when it was read by the chaplain coordinator in the Nebraska legislature the following month. Wright later explained, "I thought I might get a call from an angry congressman or two, but I was talking to God, not them. The whole point was to say that we all have sins that we need to repent - all of us... The problem, I guess, is that you're not supposed to get too specific when you're talking about sin."

What to make of all the fuss? Syndicated religion columnist Terry Mattingly probably explained it best when he wrote: "The easy answer is that he read a prayer about sin. The complicated answer is that Wright jumped into America's tense debate about whether some things are always right and some things are always wrong."

Some people get upset when politics intrude into religion; others are irritated when religion intrudes into politics. As in war, the "intruder" is always the guy on the other side.
Personally, I think most of what he said is just an attempt to get a rise out of people, but I won't express my opinion on this because my religious beliefs are my business only... Too many arguments start with religion and end up going nowhere.

Here's a link to an MP3 of the speech:
http://www.centralcc.org/audio/prayer.mp3

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Post by Snookems » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:38 pm

apoxuponme wrote: Personally, I think most of what he said is just an attempt to get a rise out of people, but I won't express my opinion on this because my religious beliefs are my business only... Too many arguments start with religion and end up going nowhere.
I think that's kind of the point of the thread. :wink:

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Post by Jomomma » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:07 pm

Phosphor wrote:And people try and say church and state are seperate in the US. Since Bush took over, church and state are seperate in theory only, but not in practice.
I don't quite understand why you say "since Bush took over"?

Also you seem to misunderstand the concept of seperation of church and state. It doesn't bar anyone from religious expression you know.

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Post by Snookems » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:45 pm

Jomomma wrote:Also you seem to misunderstand the concept of seperation of church and state. It doesn't bar anyone from religious expression you know.
True, religious expression is fine, but not from the president of the United States. He's supposed to represent every American, not just the Christians. A good president would do his job and not incorporate his ideals of religion when dealing with the people. It's one thing to get elected b/c you say "praise god" but it's another thing to ask the church for advice on policies. That's a no no.

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Post by majestic » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:10 pm

^ God Bless America!
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Post by Jomomma » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:50 pm

Snookems wrote: True, religious expression is fine, but not from the president of the United States.
Wrong, anyone, public official or not, is protected by the first amendment and is allowed religious expression.

If the votors don't like that they can elect an athiest.

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Post by Snookems » Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:13 pm

Jomomma wrote:
Snookems wrote: True, religious expression is fine, but not from the president of the United States.
Wrong, anyone, public official or not, is protected by the first amendment and is allowed religious expression.

If the votors don't like that they can elect an athiest.
Ack! Ack! Gasp! Dictatorship! Run and Hide!!!!

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Post by silvar » Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:03 am

That would probably make America a place worth living in
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Post by choyrt » Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:23 pm

Jomomma wrote:
Snookems wrote: True, religious expression is fine, but not from the president of the United States.
Wrong, anyone, public official or not, is protected by the first amendment and is allowed religious expression.

If the voters don't like that they can elect an atheist.
Not true.

Religion in the workplace is limited. Secondly, our founding forefathers wrote our declaration and Bill of Rights with a spiritual Deistic light. CHURCH and state must remain separate to not only protect the state, but also the church. However spirituality and state can intertwine from time to time with good result. In God we Trust, Lincoln's Gettysburg address, and other examples. Bush, however, respects the church above spirituality through his observable actions. Two examples.

1.) Cutting back funding for the homeless, and claiming that religious organizations have the responsibility to pick up the slack.

2.) Consulting the Pope in regards to legislate stem cell research. Why the fudge would he do that? Is the Pope part of the state? Is he even an American citizen? He IS the Catholic church.

This kind of behavior endangers both the church and the state, and an educated lover of either or both would understand.

As for Bush 'taking over,' he was not voted into office. The Judicial branch appointed him, as our checks-and-balance system of government is expected to do. Therefore, it's totally legal. Bush was appointed, as confusing as it was, legitimately.

And as for this Minister Joe Wright, it sounds like he has a lot on his mind, understandably. May he find his answers, and despite my disagreeing with his simplification of things, I see no problem in a little controversy. But he should do it legally, away from state matters.

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Post by Jomomma » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:30 pm

choyrt wrote:
Jomomma wrote:
Snookems wrote: True, religious expression is fine, but not from the president of the United States.
Wrong, anyone, public official or not, is protected by the first amendment and is allowed religious expression.

If the voters don't like that they can elect an atheist.
Not true.

Religion in the workplace is limited.
So what? The first amendment doesn't give unlimited freedom of speech, hate speech in the workplace is limited as well, so is sex speech, your point doesn't change the truth of my claim, that everyone, public official or not, is protected by the first amendment and is allowed religious expression.

The founding forefathers did not write our declaration and Bill of Rights with a spiritual Deistic light, that is a claim that has been thouroughly debunked, the founders did not want a state religion like the church of england, they did want freedom to practice your religion, in public or private.

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