What will it be for the next 4 years?

Day to day, down the street and around the world
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Silverbow
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Post by Silverbow » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:29 pm

Wanderon wrote: Wise enough not naive enough - is there corruption and deciet and manipulation in governement and politics- of course there is just like there is in business and in anything else where large groups of people with different agendas meet...but it's a matter of degree and when you get back to basics the majority of people in politics are just trying to do the right thing for their communties as they see it - its a form of community service and you have to care about your community/state/ or nation in order to be successful at it.
Not really. Those politicians whoa re genuinely interested in helping people are few and far between. Most of them are in local communal politics, not on the state level. The state level politics attracts mainly powerhungry individuals (most of them), greedy people (our govt, Berlusconi) or people with delusions of grandeur (Bush, Hitler). Even those who get to that level as pure idealists will get corrupted by the harsh reality soon enough (I saw that in our politics in recent years). Only very, very few politicians remain interested in people once in power. Personal gain is the primary factor when going to politics - to become one of most powerful and wealthy people in country for doing virtually nothing - just think how alluring that is.
[b][i]The sky shall rain fire
The seas will boil red with blood
The righteous shall perish
At the hands of the wicked
And all the world shall tremble
Before the star-spangled banner of America

--G.W. Bush-- [/b][/i]

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Ewen Brown
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Post by Ewen Brown » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:38 pm

the socialist ideas that you offer
you haven't heard the solutions i offer

you're like a person saying apples are better than oranges without ever having tasted an orange

the question of course is what do you to have if your main interest is for the economy to grow and damn everything else, by all means your system is the one you should stick to, if you want to create a world where the primary focus is people, however, change is needed

my country (that thing which doesn't really exist) is not important, unless you haven't realised it yet this is a global issue

i'm kind of tired of this but if you want we can play a little game..
how many hours do you have to work a week?
stupidity causes violence

[url=http://www.winterwind-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3071#3071]Swedish Snow Glaciers and Fjords[/url]

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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:31 pm

I'm self employed I am an owner/operator who then leases his truck/services to a large trucking company. Right now I am hauling containers back and forth between Phoinex and LA but my work hours vary and to a great degree are up to me. I also get paid by the mile plus fuel surcharge for all my "loaded" miles so it is not a very "ordinary" job- its not a job at all really its a business where I do all the work at the moment. Its also pretty much impossible to rate it by the hour but I typically put in 50+ hours a week on my logbook between driving and on duty not driving.
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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:38 pm

Silverbow wrote: Not really. Those politicians whoa re genuinely interested in helping people are few and far between. Most of them are in local communal politics, not on the state level. The state level politics attracts mainly powerhungry individuals (most of them), greedy people (our govt, Berlusconi) or people with delusions of grandeur (Bush, Hitler). Even those who get to that level as pure idealists will get corrupted by the harsh reality soon enough (I saw that in our politics in recent years). Only very, very few politicians remain interested in people once in power. Personal gain is the primary factor when going to politics - to become one of most powerful and wealthy people in country for doing virtually nothing - just think how alluring that is.
I have no clue what politicians do in your country but in my country they are definately NOT overpaid and are usually VERY overworked. While I agree that the status symbol of being a high level official may be a driving force it still requires a real need to want to make a difference and do something for your community/state/nation for anyone to ever get anywhere close to the top. Its just like everything else you only get to hear the bad stuff not the good stuff- they rarely report good politicians who do thier job just like they don;t report how many planes took off and landed without crashing today...
Not all those who wander are lost...

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Silverbow
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Post by Silverbow » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:49 pm

Wanderon wrote:I have no clue what politicians do in your country but in my country they are definately NOT overpaid and are usually VERY overworked.
Not overpaid? Overworked? :eyebrow:

A salary that is more than twice the average salary not being overpaid?

And overworked? From what? Politics on highest level are more of a game than work.
While I agree that the status symbol of being a high level official may be a driving force it still requires a real need to want to make a difference and do something for your community/state/nation for anyone to ever get anywhere close to the top. Its just like everything else you only get to hear the bad stuff not the good stuff- they rarely report good politicians who do thier job just like they don;t report how many planes took off and landed without crashing today...
I disagree. You would hear good stuff it there *was* something good to be heard. Sometimes politicians do good things, but they tend to compensate them with bad ones (Clinton, or Castro). Of course there are exceptions even there (Ghandi). But the majority is in it for themselves. Hell, in our whole parliament there's ONE politician that I would believe has genuine concern for people without any major concern for her self-advancement.

I see the way the salesmen stare into the sun
I stood and watched them as they fell off one by one
And everyone's so blind
They're not to help mankind
Reach into your bag of tricks and pull another one

You don't want to change the world
Like you say
You're in it for yourself
No one else
You're ready
Saving yourself
You're gonna change the world
You're ready
Saving yourself
You're gonna change the world

Now when the day is set they'll line up all the same
And those that need the most will never get or gain
The ones you call your friends
Are failing you again
Reach into your bag of tricks and make it go away

You don't want to change the world
Like you say
You're in it for yourself
No one else
You're ready
Saving yourself
You're gonna change the world
You're ready
Saving yourself

You're gonna change the world
And since you ain't what you say
Then just go away
Cause some don't lie
Some don't lie
Go on now they won't tell
Go on now and save yourself
[b][i]The sky shall rain fire
The seas will boil red with blood
The righteous shall perish
At the hands of the wicked
And all the world shall tremble
Before the star-spangled banner of America

--G.W. Bush-- [/b][/i]

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Post by Ewen Brown » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:04 pm

ok next question...
how much do you sleep in a week? (average works, i guess)
stupidity causes violence

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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:23 pm

about the same I guess average 7 hrs a night for 7 nights is 49 so right about 50 I guess...
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Post by Gorth » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:27 pm

Silverbow wrote: A salary that is more than twice the average salary not being overpaid?
No.

Where I come from, the Minister President (the equivalent of a Prime Minister) gets approximately twice the salary of a skilled/educated worker. Considering the working hours (usually 14-18 hours a day, at least 6 days a week, more often 7) that's not the driving force behind the desire to get into politics. Heck, a CEO in a small company, like 10-20 employees often gets more than the guy responsible for government. Not to mention, that if you spend a lot of years being active in politics, you often do it at the cost of your previous profession and skills (assuming they were there in the first place), making a "drop-out" from high level politics a very hard thing to do.
Silverbow wrote: And overworked? From what? Politics on highest level are more of a game than work.
Only if you play NationStates (see above comment on working hours and life after politics).

I'll do US bashing like many others, but only on particular issues like enviroment, what I perceive as hypocricy in the dealings with the Middleeast, WTO etc. I try to stay away from generalisaions, although Freudian slips has been known to happen.

I despise most politicians for their methods to get into that position of power, but I do respect the fact that they put a lot of hard work and usually the better part of a lifespan to get there.

Just my 0.25$
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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:41 pm

@Silverbow- all I can say to that is been there done that stole the T-shirt. :twisted:

Back in the 60s I was a flaming liberal folksinging protestin' dope smokin' acid droppin' speed poppin beer drinkin' free love makin' bona fide long haired pinko/commie hippie freak...and proud of it... :razz:

I believed essentially the same rhetoric you are spouting now and would carry on about it to anyone who wasn't too stoned to listen and to many who were...

I'm not sure when my beliefs changed- it wasn't like a light bulb going on but it probably started about the same time I got sober for the first time in almost 30 years in 1991 and it has been steadily growing stronger ever since- strong enough now that I actually voted for the first time in my life in this election.

So I know where you're coming from but I just don't believe that anymore...it no longer makes sense to me based on what I have seen and experienced over the past half century...
Not all those who wander are lost...

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Post by Ewen Brown » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:46 pm

and your weekend is free of work? saturday and sunday?
stupidity causes violence

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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:54 pm

Not usually no- usually I get home anytime between Fri afternoon and Sat morning and I usually leave sometime Sunday afternoon so I am usually off on saturday but usually go to LA or down to Tuscon or Nogales on Sunday evening.

This week I had some arthritis in my neck early in the week and took the rest of the week off...thats a benefit of being my own boss but on the other hand I made no money to pay the ingoing truck payment, insurance, etc etc etc...so my business lost money this week while i sat at home playing my new NWN games and arguing with foriegners on the internet...;)
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Post by Silverbow » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:07 pm

Wanderon wrote:@Silverbow- all I can say to that is been there done that stole the T-shirt. :twisted:

Back in the 60s I was a flaming liberal folksinging protestin' dope smokin' acid droppin' speed poppin beer drinkin' free love makin' bona fide long haired pinko/commie hippie freak...and proud of it... :razz:

I believed essentially the same rhetoric you are spouting now and would carry on about it to anyone who wasn't too stoned to listen and to many who were...

I'm not sure when my beliefs changed- it wasn't like a light bulb going on but it probably started about the same time I got sober for the first time in almost 30 years in 1991 and it has been steadily growing stronger ever since- strong enough now that I actually voted for the first time in my life in this election.

So I know where you're coming from but I just don't believe that anymore...it no longer makes sense to me based on what I have seen and experienced over the past half century...
You just got rich and changed belief to suit you ;)
[b][i]The sky shall rain fire
The seas will boil red with blood
The righteous shall perish
At the hands of the wicked
And all the world shall tremble
Before the star-spangled banner of America

--G.W. Bush-- [/b][/i]

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Silverbow
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Post by Silverbow » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:10 pm

Gorth wrote: No.

Where I come from, the Minister President (the equivalent of a Prime Minister) gets approximately twice the salary of a skilled/educated worker. Considering the working hours (usually 14-18 hours a day, at least 6 days a week, more often 7) that's not the driving force behind the desire to get into politics. Heck, a CEO in a small company, like 10-20 employees often gets more than the guy responsible for government. Not to mention, that if you spend a lot of years being active in politics, you often do it at the cost of your previous profession and skills (assuming they were there in the first place), making a "drop-out" from high level politics a very hard thing to do.
14-18 hours? LOL. 14-18 hours of sitting on ass, talking, traveling or signing papers. I'm sorry, but that's not "work". And let's rather not get into CEOs and other do-nothing-earn-a-lot "jobs".
Only if you play NationStates (see above comment on working hours and life after politics).

I'll do US bashing like many others, but only on particular issues like enviroment, what I perceive as hypocricy in the dealings with the Middleeast, WTO etc. I try to stay away from generalisaions, although Freudian slips has been known to happen.

I despise most politicians for their methods to get into that position of power, but I do respect the fact that they put a lot of hard work and usually the better part of a lifespan to get there.

Just my 0.25$
I'm not "bashing the US" here, I'm bashing politicians in general. Useless leeches (but to be fair, they're not the only ones like that). :haksthumbsdown:
[b][i]The sky shall rain fire
The seas will boil red with blood
The righteous shall perish
At the hands of the wicked
And all the world shall tremble
Before the star-spangled banner of America

--G.W. Bush-- [/b][/i]

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Wanderon
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Post by Wanderon » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:24 pm

Silverbow wrote:You just got rich and changed belief to suit you ;)
Well I am still waiting for "rich" altho its been over ten years now since i had to really fret over paying the rent on time but in 2000 when i had my heart surgery and again in 2001 when I got laid off for a couple months things were a bit dicey financially- mostly my financial situation is relatively stable becuase i am single and sober so theres no one spending my money when I am off earning it and I am no longer blowing it on getting a buzz...(addiction to CRPGs is much cheaper than booze and drugs) and being more stable financially does indeed have an impact on my political leanings but looking at the world without the old addictions has an impact too- as does just getting older...
Not all those who wander are lost...

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Silverbow
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Post by Silverbow » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:30 pm

Heh, well, you are pretty rich given your early years (as you described them, I doubt you earned a lot back then). Well, IMHO.

Getting older... well, possibly. Older people tend to turn conservative... somehow.

BTW I wonder, how many countries aside from the US have you been to?
[b][i]The sky shall rain fire
The seas will boil red with blood
The righteous shall perish
At the hands of the wicked
And all the world shall tremble
Before the star-spangled banner of America

--G.W. Bush-- [/b][/i]

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