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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:53 pm 
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/\ you are on about the Chinese there i suppose? no longer theory i'm afraid, since a year or five that has been accepted by the scientific community on Emperor Zhu Di's (or Yongle) world charting expedition, after proof and research by, among others, Menzies.



from wikipedia:
As part of his desire to expand Chinese influence, Emperor Yongle sponsored the massive and long term Zheng He expeditions. These were China's only major sea-going explorations of the world (although the Chinese had been sailing to Arabia, East Africa, and Egypt since the Tang Dynasty, from AD 618-907). The first expedition launched in 1405 (18 years before Henry the Navigator began Portugal's voyages of discovery). The expeditions were all under the command of eunuch Zheng He. At least seven expeditions were launched, each bigger and more expensive than the last. Some of the boats used were apparently the largest sail-powered boats in human history (National Geographic, May 2004).

The Chinese expeditions were a remarkable technical and logistical achievement. It is very likely that the last expedition reached as far as Madagascar, thousands of miles from where it started. Zhu Di's successors, the Hongxi Emperor and the Xuande Emperor, felt the expeditions were harmful to the Chinese state. The Hongxi Emperor ended further expeditions and the Xuande Emperor suppressed much of the information about the Zheng He voyages.

In 1411, a smaller fleet, built in Jilin and commanded by another eunuch Yishiha, sailed down the Sungari and Amur Rivers. The expedition established a "Nurgal Regional Military Commission" (奴儿干都司, Nu'ergan Dusi) in the region, headquartered at the place the Chinese called Telin (特林) (now the village of Tyr, Russia). The local Nivkh or Tungusic chiefs were granted ranks in the imperial administration. Yishiha's expeditions returned to the lower Amur several more times during the reigns of Yongle and Xuande, the last one visiting the region in the 1430s. [11][12]

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Ls, you are really, really starting to annoy me. Why do you constantly insist on arguing with everyone when, as usual, the facts are completely against you?

The simple facts are:

1) South American countries are sick and tired of the US involvement in their continent.

2) Chavez is a native of Venezuela.

3) The Mayan and Aztec civilisations became extinct centuries ago. And they were predominately in modern day Mexico when they were alive.

Why can't you put as much effort into your PRG posts (specifically reading the DM posts and those of the other players so you know what is actually going on instead of asking questions that you should already know the answers to) instead of arguing positions that can't even remotely be defended?


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Seemingly they growed some in Tibet! :cry:


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Since our remaining members are predominately European, I'm wondering what you all think about things in Switzerland, regarding their vote on banning minarets on Muslim mosques.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385389.stm

And Lord sadness, we already know your views on Islam and the influx of Muslims into Europe. ;)

Personally, I'd like to see "freedom of religion" changed to "freedom from religion", and covering all religions.


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hmm, i dont think i really like it to be honest, of course i missed most of it being asked of the people when i was in Lissabon, but at least it comes from a referenda. A system which i like, even when i would disagree with the outcome. I do wonder about the way the question was asked of the Swiss people, was it a simple ban of minarets or was there more involved, what was the turn-up, et cetera.
It also makes me wonder why this was brought up, do they feel the muslim people cant worship their religion? Do they find they've built enough already for the 4% that live there? Do they not like the sound that comes from the minarets during prayer times? Do they feel that the architecture is out of place in Swiss culture? Are the muslims still allowed to built mosques, just without minarets?

I'd at least say the thesis is formed somewhat ill, because if i want a minaret in my backyard because i like its shape it would be suddenly forbidden. Not that i like any form of censorship in this way, in Germany swastika's are still illegal from after the war, even when you want a swastika shaped hedgerow, or a coffee mug with a big cross trough the swastika.

Also i am all for Josans slogan above in a case like this, if you want to expel minarets you should also expel churches, synagogues, stupa's, atheistic posters and architecture, et cetera, i think its very bad to differ in the way you judge all these beliefs.

All in all, though, like the article states, Switzerland is a bit of an oddball in Europe, just like the UK, Serbia and some others. They're not part of the EU, they still uphold banking secrecy, they seem some sort of refuge for every neutrality obsessed person, et cetera. Also it seems its often the case that countries that have (had) a somewhat over tolerant society over the last decades are now turning towards rightwing conservatism more, we've seen the same in Austria and Belgium in the last few years, and over here in Holland those crazies are winning votes with too much speed as well.

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I like how the decision in Switzerland is nothing but practiced democracy, yet it pisses people off and generates dicussion.


edit: the ban on swastikas is indeed nonsense, since it's an ancient symbol and has never been Nazi intellectual property to begin with.


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Thats what happens when you fudge in politics when people are not integrated and live in chaos when they dont have their parents culture nor want the new one

Yalla Abdullah! Whats up eyy

Eyy Muhammad! Im doing nothing eyy kebab walla!

Eyy Abdullah! Look at the blonde whore! Wallah!

Thats how they sound in town, those who one hear. They ruin for the others. I know many clever muslims but they are not heard like others.

What Switzerland do is their part. There is a reason this happens. The integration of Europe is broken.

The right wing lives on this and shows only the bad parts of the imigrants.

Do not touch my Chinese food you bastards!


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So the Italian people are fed up with Berlusconi and march against in protest against him.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/12/0 ... ch005.html

That's one of the things I love about you Europeans. When you've had enough, you take it to the streets. When I was in Hungary for example, it was just after one of their "take it to the streets" protests and their parliament building remained cordoned off and patrolled by the military the entire month I stayed.

In Canada, and the US, we rarely do anything to voice our displeasure other than vote in the next election, which could be years after the incident that pissed us off. Canada, and the US, are farces as far as democracy are concerned. The people have no real voice. I'd love to seen tens of thousands marching to demand the removal of tha pathetic excuse for a human being that masquerades as our Prime Minister.

In the US though, with their patriot act and paranoia, it wouldn't fly, at least during the GWB debacle. They'd have called in the military to ship all the protesters off to secret prisons under the name of "national security".


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One of the issues with the US and Canada is that our nations are pretty massive. People on the west coast would have a difficult time teaming up with people from the rest of the country to go to the white house and cause some mischief.

That, and there'd be a McDonald's on the way and they'd see a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese, order three of them and take a nap while watching an NFL game, forgetting that they could potentially make a difference.

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