Very good gamespot article on BIS

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Amorghost
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Very good gamespot article on BIS

Post by Amorghost » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:01 pm

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6085963/p-2.html
Personally however,I think that Lionheart was the final blow to BIS.I mean in comparison to it's other games,it was a failure and a waste of the few remaining resources BIS had...
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Post by Phosphor » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:10 pm

Lionheart was never meant to be anything significant for BIS, but it's unfortunately the last title associated with them. When Lionheart was announced, the core BIS people were hard at work on Baldur's Gate III (Jefferson), which was to be The Big Title.
If anything, Lionheart was an ill omen of things to come.

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Post by Amorghost » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:17 pm

It was still a failure if you ask me.Very low quality compared to other games they made.
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Post by Phosphor » Tue Dec 30, 2003 1:24 pm

I believe it was a failure. I had huge hopes for the game, but as the development cycle moved ahead, it became clear that while the concept was good, the design was going to be awful. And the demo only confirmed this. So I never bought the game, and now I see it everywhere used or already in the bargain bin.
The sad thing is, people are going to remember Lionheart as a BIS game rather than a Reflexive game. BIS merely published it and tried to help out, but I guess Reflexive lacked the wisdom to see what help BIS could offer.
As far as I'm concerned, the last BIS title was IWD2. Which, as much as I liked it, isn't a great note upon which to end.

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Post by Amorghost » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:10 pm

As far as I'm concerned, the last BIS title was IWD2

Agreed.
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Post by Puuk » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:43 pm

Phosphor wrote:I believe it was a failure. I had huge hopes for the game, but as the development cycle moved ahead, it became clear that while the concept was good, the design was going to be awful. And the demo only confirmed this. So I never bought the game, and now I see it everywhere used or already in the bargain bin.
The sad thing is, people are going to remember Lionheart as a BIS game rather than a Reflexive game. BIS merely published it and tried to help out, but I guess Reflexive lacked the wisdom to see what help BIS could offer.
As far as I'm concerned, the last BIS title was IWD2. Which, as much as I liked it, isn't a great note upon which to end.
Chris Avellone and I helped them (Reflexive) with the dialogue writing, but the overall design was them - we didn't have time, really, to help with that since we were working on Jefferson. *shrug* *sniff* *scratch*
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Post by Phosphor » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:05 pm

Puuk wrote: Chris Avellone and I helped them (Reflexive) with the dialogue writing, but the overall design was them - we didn't have time, really, to help with that since we were working on Jefferson. *shrug* *sniff* *scratch*
From what I heard, the parts of the game where you actually interact with people were great, but after that it was all downhill. Good dialogue, while super-important, does not make a good game on it's own.

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Post by Eldar » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:38 pm

I think the dialogue would have helped if there were more of it. I tend to be forgiving of games, and so it's no surprise that I actually enjoyed Lionheart. Still, it was apparent, once I left Barcelona, that the design had more than a few flaws. Kind of like the Titanic had a slight problem after it hit the iceberg. The dialogue, along with a lot of other things, went away after the early game. It was like island hopping to catch dialogue in the late game.

Still, convincing the ultimate bad guy to go goodie two shoes was quite rewarding.

I also think, to be fair, that I happened to hit upon the best character build so the game wasn't so gut wrenchingly difficult in the late game. It was still too damned hard and boring though.
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Post by kumquatq3 » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:07 pm

I have talked to more than a few people who resent having Lionheart being associated with BIS.

For good reason, BIS had little to do with it. Iply just slapped on the BIS baged.....kind of an indication of things to come.
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Post by taks » Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:49 am

for what it's worth, puuk, the dialog that was there was pretty good. at least in the first half of the game...

i happened to stumble on one of those character builds that was gut wrenchingly hard to play in the second half so, well, i didn't finish. :)

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Post by Visceris » Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:02 am

Black Isle is dead, so why whinge on about it? Interplay has become irrelevant so why keep talking about them? There is no point to it. THat is why I left the Interplay forums. If any of you still visit the grave site I just want to say move on.

Cheers.

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Post by Amorghost » Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:50 am

If that's how we all thought,these forums probably wouldn't exist...and you wouldn't have posted that. :)
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Post by choyrt » Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:58 pm

Vis strikes again.

Lionheart showed tremendous potential, hence a lot of the frustration because it wasn't fully realized. I think if done right, Lionheart could be a great and fun series of games. But I doubt reflexive will be given the resources and opportunities to make Lionheart into something respectable.

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Post by Tayl » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:10 am

Damnit...I ended up buying Lionheart, but never got around to really playing it. And now that I hear just how bad it is, I really don't want to.

Man, was that ever a waste of money. :oops:

Is there any reason for me to play it? Throw me a bone here...I want some reason to give it a shot again. :wink:

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Post by Spider » Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:17 am

Tayl wrote:Is there any reason for me to play it? Throw me a bone here...I want some reason to give it a shot again. :wink:
I thought it was fun. I actually liked the fast pacing of it. The problem with Lionheart is that it tried too many things without excelling at any. It tried some strong role-playing and what there was I liked, but there could have been a lot more. It also tried to be like Diablo but since it wasn't focused enough on that type of gameplay it was also left wanting.

Basically Lionheart is a game filled with good ideas but with poor execution of those ideas.

Still, I had fun with it. It's not a great game by any means, but I actually finished Lionheart and started it a second time (though without finishing it) which is more than I did wit ToEE.

ToEE just got so dull in the end...
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