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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Trying to wrap my brain around Europa Universalis II.

I played the Ottomans during my first voyage of the 1400s, vassalizing the Byzantines and Antalya. My second spree of annexation was less succesfull. When trying to take on Rhodos, it seemed they had quite the fleet under the banner of 'the knights', and alliances with the also quite large fleet of Cyprus, and the 23 legion strong Serbian army. War took quite some time with my fron split on both sides, and during naval battles the Serbians had invaded Bulgaria and MAcedonia to demand my attention on that side of my borders, i punished them back, Capturing Kosovo in the process and making separate peace with them. With that threat away i truned my attention on Rhodos again, though my fleet had suffered hard casualties and i was already in a downward spiral of bank loans to keep my army together. somewhere after my first bankruptcy i managed to land a second army on Rhodos this time beating them and annexing them, but the Cypriot fleet was all the while harrying my coast. Somehwere along this period i fell into a second bankruptcy which also netted me a war against Austria and Hungary and Croatians, with the last blasting trough my now undefended northern borders and taking Bulgaria again.
By now my people were tired of waging war and started revolting too, and while my army was punsihing them, Tuscany decided i had either become a war tyrant, or that they saw my weak position and wanted some of it. They landed on my vassal Istanbul and took my two richest provvinces, Smyrna and Macedonia, which was quite the end of my first foray. Nice game though,

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:50 am 
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Europa Universalis II is much more fun, if you start with Crusader Kings, and then import your save games into EU2. Otherwise, IMO, it's just another manager-game...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:15 pm 
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Well, it's indeed one of those simulation games where you let the other countries do their best to work around you, but i like those.

On connecting the stuff btw, you can even do a campagin until your elderly. After CK and EU2 you can load the game into Victoria and afterwards even into Heart of Iron 2.

My second game i am prospering a bit more, Since i didnt make the basic errors of bankruptcy, tyranny and to large fronts again.
I am not totally sure whether i evaded tyranny however, my reputation went from honorable to tarnished and then up to slightly tarnished, but my relations with the european continent are horrendous, of course they are christian filth, but still...
The rep probably dropped because i have annexed both Byzantium and Teke in addition to the religion problems. Annexing Byzantium however seems quite needed, my capital moved there and all.
In money i'm faring a lot better, i needed a single loan somewhere in a war, which i managed to repay, and not to long ago i even took a double loan to pay for a big event, and managed to pay it back too, it cost some heavy minting, but no downward spirals this time.
I suppose that mainly comes from expansion going better this time. I cleared the minors in Turkey though i have had some torbule with it, Since other countries keep warring my vassals and annexing their provinces, i had Cypriots and Venicians taking over two of my vassals. I took down the Cypriots afterward who are my vassal now.
I have went trough eyes of a needle twice however, once when i thoguh to take Ak Kyuluk (or something) to get Armenia which has an incredible gold income, but when i was besieging three of their provinces after slaying their main army the Austrian alliance declared war on me (Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Croatia and some vassals). They took Bulgaria with incredible power and i had to retreat from my front in the east, luckily they offered me a peace with some money, but at the time i arrived i also lost Dobrunya.
Luckily they offered me peace for those provinces afterwards because i was absolutely not ready for a war with them. However right after the peace Venice declared war (together with Rhodos and Cyprus), and my fleet was beaten to pulp by the venicians. Thats where i pulled out the loan to keep my supremacy of the bosporus. I send the army into the province they took from my vassal, and started warring on Rhodos again. Luckily this succesful siege was enough to have the Venicians go away (also after repelling a series of attacks on Athens) from the war.
With only Rhodos and Cyprus i thought i ahd what i wanted, but Rhodos proves a very tough nut again, after three years lost warring them with only losses, i went to the CYpriots who were a lot easier, it still took several runs on their isalnd to take it, but i succeeded and got Trabzon back too. during this the Rhodos people offered peace too, which i accepted because they were costing money anyway.
I went into a second war with Ku Hyuluk whch went much more succesfull, trouble arised only after taking Sivas, Kurdistan, Armenia and Azerbaidzjan, while Dagestan was under rebel control. That however was the sign for the Austrians to demand a nother province, they declared war again and took RUmelia (the coastal part of Bulgaria). I again pulled back from the front, making a deal with the Hyulukans to get Sivas, Armenia and Azebaidzjan from them. Especially the latter two are great provinces, though Azer is isolated at the moment. Going back hwoever the Austrians demanded peace for RUmelia, and i accepted again seeing no reason to beat that alliance up yet.
But as you can see i am faring a lot better than the first time. I suppose i fixed the money loss with the countries i took (especially Thrace), and am spending a lot of money to get tax collectors in my provinces. Another important thing is that your monthly income is usually negative, while your yearly is positive, you have to calculate what you can safely spend each january.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:02 pm 
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Hmmm, i seem to be going quite well in my second game, its now 1520 and i'm (still) leader of the board.

My two big wars went nicely, the first against Ak Kolunyu (which i think is the true correct name), which made them vassal and gave me a great country called Trubiz or something. Pushing towards Georgia failed.
My second war i took on Venice and minors *Naples, Rhodos, Cyprus) to get the Aegean archipelago under my control. It took a lot of time and money considering the islands that needed to be taken. In the end i managed to annex Cyprus (quite easy) and Rhodos, whose fleet was qquite nasty, but i was lucky they sent part of their army to attack Macedonia. Ionia and Crete had long sieges going, but with reinforcements i took them, though i failed miserably at Corfu due to heavy attrition. A peace tribute followed giving me the two isles.
After this i really had to fix my stability and spent all my money on that, when it reached about -2 (and i converted Macedonia) some nice rebellions happened, making me able to first reconquer Dobrudja and Rumelia. Later on Bulgaria revolted again to be ready for annexation, and a while later Albania did the same, and i could annex it.
From Albania i was better suited to take Corfu, which i managed.
I also declared war on Croatia, getting the whole bunch on me again. I managed to win sieges up until Croatia before Bohemia, Hungary and Austria came to help. They pushed me back into Bosnia and Croatia gave me two countries. I was still at war with Bohemia however, who pushed me out of Bosnia, and asked for that country. I accepted, but still won Ragusa from this small war.
Afterwards i gathered some money to convert Rumelia and Dagestan, the latter failed.
My last action was a war declaration on Spain, because they still held Hellas in Greece. Their fleet was a good match for me, but i managed to wriggle it from under them, fending off their attacks on Corfu and Cyprus. After a number of won naval battles they decided to give me Hellas.
My realm is becoming quite nice now, spreading from Albania in the west to Azerbaidzjan in the east. My next targets will eiither be Hungary for more control over the Black Sea or Mameluks to gain Cairo and Alexandria. (exception is as soon as Georgia becomes a 1 state country). I'm still thinking of the gold mine in Astrakhan, the nation has good relations to me, and some allied hordes, butthose hordes seem to be failing under great pressure from newly formed Russia and Persia/India, so it might be best to abandon the folks and take the mine. I had a mility alliance with those hordes btw (Golden ~, Nubai and some others) but they started warring on each other, and the Uzbek Kanganate. I found this all to crazy already, but when they started to war on RUssia it was the turning point for me, those Hordes are going to be wiped out, best not be on the same side. (i had the war on Venice to cope with too).

as for winning the game, im conquering quite well, but my realm is grwowing large and finding it hard to keep up on technology and religious conversion. (let alone manufactories, which are way too steeply priced as of yet)

Edit, ah yes somewhere in the game i landed my fleet and army on Rome, demolishing the Papal States :).
It wasnt that smart an idea however, since it had no shipyard i lost many ships to attrition (and quite some armies), and due to the religion and cultrue there, the state didnt turn in as much gold as it should by far. Even worse, they are revolting every few years.
With some armies there i kept it from revolting, but i later ditched the provinve for peace with Naples, who invaded it during the war with them and Venice, while i was taking Venice's isles.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:35 pm 
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Hmm, somehow i feel the need to continue the tale of the evergrowing Ottoman Empire...

Let's see quite some time passed since my last post on the subject.
Iirc after the wars with Spain and Austria/Hungary/Croatia/Bohemia i took the time for small peace period and increase stability. During this period i also conquered Georgia, to get all my eastern cores.
A while later somehow Hungary and Bohemia had split their alliance from mighty Austria and Croatia. Looking back it was over a war the Danes started against France, the Danes where part of the alliance by then too, and Bohemia and Hungary dishonored the war call.
That was the moment for me to strike into Hungary, and rapidly i took over provinces over the whole front. Bujak, Wallachia, Carpathia, Moldavia, Ruthenia, Transylvania, Bosnia, Banat, Magyar and Pest were taken in three years. Upon that moment i got an event annexing the whole of Hungary without any peace talks. Austria got some provinces out of the event too, but 80% went to me.
With this chunk of land mine i now had a good border to strike on Croatia and Venice, which i immediately did. I wiped out the Croatians, and took Dalmatia and Istria from Venice, and was besieging Venice itself when Austria joined the war, and beat me away. I got peace with Venice and Croatia just before (while Naples left that alliance and joined Austrias), giving me the two said provinces, and a province called Krain from Croatia, who had only their main country left. The Austrians accepted peace for Pest, which gave me another five year breather.
In the meantime i had Armenia revolt so much they went independent and i had to sent some armies there during the war, to annex it again. WHile there i noticed Astrakhan had declared independency from the Golden Horde, and was warring with it and Russia. It was one province at that moment, so i swooped in and annexed the Center of Trade with great income.
At this moment my so called 'Bad Boy rating' was getting very high, due to loads of annexations and war declarations. The height was giving me wars all over my borders, which you've been reading above, the Austrian and Venice/Naples wars had to witht hat too, and now the Persians started war on me.
The Persians arent very dangerous to me, way behind in tech, but i had to take down loads of their armies before they agve me peace and money.
While i wanted the time to raise some money to convert some more provinces and get some technology, that bad boy rating was so high it send me into series and series of wars, for about 50 years my only breaks came from peace treaties, which resulted in war declarations the moment they expired. In the periods that followed not only the Austrian alliance, Venice and Persia warred me, Poland joined in too, had annexed Lithuania and were becoming quite a power and pushed me aside east and west of the black sea. The Russians had somehow entered an alliance with the Austrians and were joining in the wars too, making my predicament even harder. By the time the Russians left the alliance (porobably due to the danes again) they were still out for me, probably because Astrakhan is offcially a part of their country.
This series of wars pushed me back quite a bit, i lost Istria to Venice, lost a lot of hungarian core to Austria (Magyar, Ruthenia and Carpathia first later on also Banat when i decided to move in their back when they warred England, France and Poland, i first got some countries from them but a few years later they striked back) Moldavia decalred independence and joined the Polish alliance, and together they took Transylvania, Wallachia and Bujak, while on the east side the poles went into my empire taking the formerly Georgian provinces. The Russians stopped after they claimed Astrakhan after a serie of wars.
The only wars that went fine where with the Persian alliance, out of which i managed to wrestle Iraq, a nice province that partly makes up for Astrakhan. I also had a first war witht he Mameluks (the Egyptian empire from that period), to get a better border with Persia. I took Aleppo, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan from them, especially the first two are good provinces. They also agve me Quattara, some desert province west of Alexandria. At first i didnt care for it until i noticed it would make an invasion of Egypt much simpler.
Overall though i noticed i was quite losing the wars to the European Nations, and Austria had recently armed themselves with gun powder, which made them a very large threat.
I spent my time during those wars and the years after to catch up on technology, researching the gun powder and legal counsels, the latter for more tax income. I did only one war myself during the
period, on the Mameluks, to wrestle Alexandria out of them, i did this by attacking Alex. and Egypt at the same time, hoping to get the first out of peace talks when i captured the capital.
Another event happened however when i took Egypt, anenxing me this whole country too, and this time no borders with technologically superior races.
I also spent this war period and another 50 years after to get my Babdboy rating to respectable numbers, this is a very slow process done solely by your Monarch over time. I freed Albania from my rule, the country sucks and it gave me another few BB points back.
Somewhere after 50 years of treaties & wars the Austrians stopped warring me, probably because they were quite bsuy themselves, mostly with sandwiching Poland together with Russia. I was happy for this, since it let me catch up even more Land tech, and allowed me to build all those legal counsels troughout my country.
I tried a small war against Poland, because i had a tech advantage by then, but i only just didnt manage to get Wallachia from them, because the border was too large and Poland was besieging a number of provinces. A white peace followed.
That is about where i am now, the year is 1690 or something, and my BB rating has just gone into slightly tarnished, instead of very bad. Most states are on good infrastructure, thoguh i would like to convert some more.
I have however due to this immense peace period slipped into second place in the standings (Austria passed me), and the Austrians are nearly at the next important Land level, at which they would again beat the heck out of me. I guess i should be smart and attack the Persians soon, they are retarded compared tot he rest, and if i wait to long the Russians might take their lands. Plus its good money to get closer to Austria, and would give me a lot of war victory points.
I also would like Conquistadors by now (untis that can explore 'terra incognita'), I had one bfore but then i didnt have unexplored land at my borders, but i do now in Arabia and North Africa.
I also have my harbor in the Red Sea now (Nile), but no ships capable of exploring the Indian Ocean.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:02 pm 
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hmm, just made a screenshot:
The Ottoman Empire

The current standings:
Austria 1702
Ottoman Empire 1428
Russia 1139
France 991
Poland 958
England 938
Swedeb 929
As i can deduce from the partial scores Spain, Portugal, Ayathuyya and China follow shortly after.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:11 pm 
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Austria as #1? From your screenshot, they don't seem to have much in the way of land - or at least, not more than the Ottoman empire.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:40 pm 
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Hmm well no, my yearly income and such is also higher.
However the Austrians are quite ahead in technology, although we both have muskets (14), Austria has now gone to Land 17 already, 18 is the next treshold, and then i will have a new problem.
They've got a lot of war points, becuase they waged good wars versus me and others, and annexed Bohemia and Burgundy during the game. I think the realms are quite comparable, although i might have bit more land, i dont think i have many more provinces (mine just have a larger size), and i suppose their mean is higher, as i have sevral wasterland/desert provinces.
Another difference might be in that i'm Sunnite, while they are Catholic (or maybe another Christian form), which gives them even more technological lead.
A last reason, and probably the one with which they pass me, is Diplomacy. Due to my annexes, and my bad boy rating there is nearly no country that likes me (apart from Algiers iirc), so i cant really get any victory points from diplomatic stuff. Austria have always had a number of alliances in my game, plus some diplomatic vassals and annexations, which give them quite some vps in that area.
I might also lose a bit in trade tot hem, though i'm fixing that, I am market leader in my own Centers of Trade (Thrace, Alexandria and Astrakhan), and recently also became market leader in Novgorod, i am investing in the european trade centers but due to my reputation i get kicked out often. Though i dont believe Austria is doing much in Trade (that seems to be mostly Spain and France), it might be they are quite widespread and not kicked out.

Fixing my relations also will be further away, although i have somehwat fixed my BB rating, evading constant war, they still have not much reason to start liking me, first of all since i cant stand those Catholic pieces of shite. (eh..) and second because many of my neighbours have claims on my land, or i have claims on theirs, which doesnt seem good for relations too. I guess my relations will go up in time, but i will have to focus on Sunnite, Shiite and Orthodox allies, because my people dont like the rest. Since most muslim countries are quite behind on tech they dont seem worthwile allies, actually only Russia might ebcome one, they are orthodox, but probably it will take a while before they like me, and honestly i'm playing with plans of invading them, as they are one of the more beatable majors in their current form, have rich lands and a religion i can cope with in my empire (i really need to convert any catholics, protestants etc if i dont want yearly revolts.)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Hmm you also can't really see the power of the austrians in that screen, but i couldnt zoom out further and wanted to show my eastern border too.

They are the white ones in the screen, and span further west even. Let me search for a pic of their empire.

[edit]
There we go
The Austrian Empire
I need to note that some 50 years ago the Netherlands became independent, after a few years under Spain and a long period under Austria (after they annexed Burgundy, who invaded the original citystates), so tey have quite the empire (i doubt whether they managed that far northwest in those times).
As for the victory score i looked into it a bit (although i dont know how to earn those literally) and i think i was right.
I have 1400 points, of which 900 are from war, 200 from diplomacy and 200 from economy. While the Austrians have 800, plus 550 in diplomacy and 350 in economy. I suppose these are due to the annexes of Austria (Bohemia, Burgundy) which i think are earned diplomatically instead of war/event wise like mine. My economy is behind because i only delved into trade in the last 50 year piece really, which i suppose is the reason for my arrear. Austrian is even 7th in economy, Spain has a massive 450, but then they of course own a colonial empire. Their high war score (2nd) is my fault, mine is so high because the wars i won mostly east and the ones i won in the west, however those in the west have always been beaten back exactly by the austrians, so they get lots from that.
I saw a beautifull comparison table in the ledgers too, which i partly copied here, to compare the different empires.
As you can see im very high in infrastructure and income, so i think i will close in on those countries in the economy vp leading board soon, but i actually created these numbers in those last 50 years, it wouldnt surprise me if my income tripled during those years.
sorted by annual income.
pos/name of empire/annualincome/tradelvl/infralvl/landlvl/navallvl
1. Ottoman Empire 116.4 47 50 15 6
2. France 85.6 41 40 17 10
3. Austria 72 36 30 17 8
4. Spain 71.5 22 20 13 9
5. England 62.8 54 44 15 13
6. Inca 59.3 30 5 2 1
7. Persia 56.8 36 18 9 3
8. Russia 56 29 17 12 3
9. Portugal 47.2 49 19 13 11
10. China 42.6 27 10 6 2
12. Sweden 37.2 48 51 17 11
13. Poland 36.2 47 18 13 4
17. Venice 24.5 47 30 16 12
20. Netherlands 22.7 71 53 17 13
21. Denmark 18.9 47 22 14 11
2x. Naples 13.6 46 17 14 11
2x. Navarra 12.4 46 28 17 10
2x. Scotland 10 51 33 16 12
2x. Hessen 7.9 62 27 16 10
??. Ayathuyya <- i havent met those so they're not compared.
I must probably also note that Denmark has slipped to 21st because of internal problems, I think they lost some provinces to Russia and or Poland, and recently Norway declared independence again.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:45 pm 
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This thread has rekindled my EU2 interest - I think I'll import one of my old Crusader Kings saves, and see how it goes.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:29 pm 
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EU II IS the shit! My Sweden is a European Super power which is colonizing, trading and kicking the buckets on nasty neighbours. Russia haven't even moved on me, barely anyone has since of I been a nice bastard colonizing mostly and already conquered what I want in Europe, Just Poland getting a beating at time. Big Austria and France has been eating up rest of europe, Spain and England is normally wrecking about a bit here and there.

Well, EU II is a nice game :D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:21 pm 
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heh, nice to see another one playing :)
i'd like to see some screenshots from your swedish empire..

In my game they're not really big, because of wars with Denmark, by now they have an alliance and sweden has gone to land 17 as you can see. So this should be their chance to take some Russian or Polish lands. Havent seen the border change much in the last centuries anyway i think, (it's mostly Poland that lost to Russia)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:13 am 
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Is it just me, or do all the Spanish powers suffer from constant crap events? Seems like that every 6 months that something goes wrong. Rebellions, religious uprisings or what-have-you, all dragging my stability through the gutter.

Also, is there any power that is relatively stable throughout the game? I feel like giving up on Castile...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:01 am 
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This game definitely looks interesting (I wonder how I could miss it)... perhaps I should see if I can find it anywhere here in Adelaide :P

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Hmmwell, of course i dont know much about the games different empires either, this is my second game.
However, i had many bad events myself, you get two random ones and a lot of historical ones, but i've also had my periods where i had to invest in stability for quite some years, stopping my warmongering, had another one yesterday: event1: stab -2 due to a historic event considering the Pasha family, event2: a random event dropped my stab by 3, something about diplomatic crisis i think (that is one of the worst random events), and third some event caused my revolt risk to go up by 5. Had my fire brigades run all trough my realm. And stability costs more with the years and the size of your empire.. threw a year or 5 away there. (plus the money and merchants i didnt earn).
Anyway, I suppose Spain itself should be quite steady, though of course needs you to do some colonial work. Navarra, Castile and Aragon are probably a different story (and Catalunya, that pops up every now and then). I've seen Aragon and Castile annexed by Spain over the years, and that might very well be events, so you might even not be able to finish the game with those two. Navarra is on Englands side in my game, so that would make a hard predicament sitting in between France and Spain.
As for steady countries i'd advise the easy ones, as listed on several sites. If i look at the map i'd consider countries like Austria, Sweden, Spain, maybe Hungary and Poland because they all have quite good lands, that will not change overly much in the years.
In comparison, France, Denmark and England are splintered at that stage of the game, Ottomans are without Thrace and most of the Empire, Russia still has to be formed. (Hungary and Poland seem to find the pressure of Austria/Russia or Austria/Ottoman quite hard).
I dont know much to say about the small ones or minors in this sense, havent played one. I'm thinking of Hessen, Bohemia, Venice or Saxony next game, those all seem quite steady.

As for my own game, I took some of the Persian lands (including Basra and Tabaristan which are quite good, afterwards i got a big histroci event fixing my relations with Persia by a massive +300, and they even sought an alliance afterwards, nice, especially with me ahving quite some of their cores. A while later Oman, our third ally, declared war on some country and we both dishonored, giving me the chance to roll up Oman. Dont know how much i'll take, since i just noticed these guys have several provinces in Somalia too, that seems less interesting. (different culture). Theres also a chance the european partners again start to disagree with my mongering, though my reputation is kept in tarnished. (10-15)
I also completed trade 4 and infra 5, and am now pormoting mayors all over the place. I already had two deflations due to Spain wasting/minting so much money they went bankrupt twice, with the new mayors i'm already back at 10% inflation, while the rest is at 30-50. The Trade level also saw me get five traders in 7 CoTs (Thrace, Alexandria, Astrakhan, Novgorod, Isfahan, Delhi and Assam i think.) I am currently working on Benin, the europeans still have a tendency to kick me out. I had some monopolies, but they dont seem to give me much money considering the number of free spots in the centers. I could try some now, and embargo some countries when i get a monopoly, but i doubt whether thats a good idea for my reputation.
Allies suck btw. I already told about the Hordes alliance that nearly drgaged me to war with Russia (the Golden ~ has just been annexed btw). My second alliance group i got myself into was with a number of North African minors, mostly due to a misclick. However it was the damn Tunisians who made peace with Persia, they gave me the three countries, but i could ahve taken more of Persias lands had they not. (If i skipped Hamadan, that province is unbelievably well-defended). My third alliance, with Persia and Oman, dragged me into a war with the assorted Indians, no problem i though, until they raided all my trading posts in south india again...

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